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I'm almost speechless and still trying to process what I just watched.
Is this intentional, accidental, or what-the-fuck-all?
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To recap what happens in the video:
- Horse is sedated
- Horse is then given IV muscle relaxant
- Human idiots then proceed to manipulate the horse's body in ways that any sane person knows to be wrong
- More human idiots stand by watching it happen and do nothing to intervene
- Main human idiot clearly demonstrates they have no fucking clue what they are doing and are just making it up as they go along.
- After twisting, turning, pulling, yanking, and jumping on this poor mare… oh yes, there's more!
- Main human idiot does something to her eyes, possibly acupuncture. Hard to clearly discern in the video.
- Finally, main human idiot then randomly pokes and occasionally injects unknown fluid into various body parts of the horse.
I don't know, maybe I'm way off base, but this whole video makes my skin crawl. This does not look like any kind of traditional or even alternative medicine I'd ever take seriously.
Also, it's giving me flashbacks to the whiplash a chiropractor gave me from an old-school manual adjustment.
Anyone recognize the individuals in this video? Who are they, and what in the world are they doing?
Updated Details
So, I tracked down the owner of the horse who posted this information online about the video:
Yesterday I posted a video of my horse being manipulated to fix a SI joint that was out of alignment. Some people here took it upon themselves to judge what was happening to fix the horse rather than to ask questions about it. I had not been near a computer for a few hours as I was out doing the physical therapy the horse needs twice daily at the time, but received a call from the vet to remove the video because of the negative and threatening comments. I did so at his request. But you can see it has been reposted below.
Let me take a few moments to try to educate some of you as to what was going on as many incorrect assumptions were made.
First off, this particular vet has been doing this and perfecting his technique for decades. He is a very well respected vet and people bring their horses to him from all over the country. He is a genius and I trust him and have seen him fix horses that other vets said could not be fixed.
The video did NOT show the prior exam the vet did, which was quite thorough. He is something of a wizard in diagnosing what is wrong. I knew there was something wrong with her left side as I could see it in her walk and her left rump was slightly lower than the right with the leg lifting inward toward the belly when she walked. It was having spasms on occasion where it could lift quickly and quite high and was not normal.
A few months ago she had been startled while tied at the hitching post and pulled back hard enough to break the cotton lead rope and landed on her left rump. A month or so after that she reared on me and came over backwards on top of me further damaging the left rump.
He determined that it was the SI joint that needed to be adjusted and in order to do that the horse must be sedated.
The first 3 minutes of the video showed her being sedated – the next 2 min 30 seconds showed her getting a muscle relaxer intravenously so they could safely adjust her.
The adjustment itself followed after that. Just like humans that need to be pulled on and manipulated after an injury, we are also sedated. I've had ungodly shit done too me when I had my hip and shoulder replaced.
The technique the vet used to fix her has worked when nothing else would with other horses. It is not cruel to the horse as the horse is in constant pain while the joint is misaligned and this puts it back in position. Much like putting a dislocated shoulder back in position. it feels much better afterwards it doesn't hurt the horse while it is being done because the horse is sedated and has a muscle relaxer going through it.
After the neck adjustment, they moved to the back end of the horse. First the hind legs were moved toward the left while the front legs were moved toward the right – this was easily done as the right SI joint was not out of alignment. Next the hind legs were both moved toward the right with the front legs moved toward the left. This was much more difficult since that was the joint that was out.
After the adjustment the horse was treated with acupuncture. Near the eyes it is done with needles, the rest of the body is done with a vitamin C solution which acts as if it were in place for up to three days.
Once that is done, the horse wakes and is fine. She will require being walked 20 minutes twice daily for 14 days and no riding during that time. She is already walking better, has had no spasms that I have observed and her back is level now.
I took a video of her walking tonight and if I can figure out how to attach it I will and you will see that she is doing great.
I hope you will all learn from this video and the successful outcome it has created. As for myself and the thousands of horses he has helped, I will continue to support him and take my animals to him for treatment.
Kelly Jo Robinson Forbes
There are several problems I'm having with this explanation.
- If this is a technique that has been in use for decades, why is this the first we are hearing/seeing it on the internet? As odd as it appears, somebody somewhere would have documented and posted it online by now if it's been presented as a legitimate treatment for equine pain.
- I get concerned when people refer to individuals as geniuses, particularly when it is connected with any kind of technique or method which appears haphazard and is not being presented in any kind of professional way. There is a reason that Veterinary medicine is governed by the rules of science. I'm not seeing any kind of scientific evidence explaining what this vet is performing.
- Supposedly there was a thorough exam prior to the video. The owner doesn't go into more specific details of what that included, but I would love to learn more (genuinely).
- Again, I am uncomfortable with the horse owner's use of the word wizard when referring to the vet's ability to diagnose problems. Veterinary medicine is not magic, and diagnosing the source of a horse's pain likewise shouldn't be considered some form of magic.
- Unfortunately, there are no before images or videos showing the issue with this horse before treatment, to compare to the after.
- Where the horse's owner refers to “Just like humans that need to be pulled on and manipulated after an injury, we are also sedated.” typically the only kinds of injuries where this is remotely true are total joint dislocations, and breaks. Also, those are not always combined with sedation. I understand the sedation element in this video because these types of manipulations would be impossible otherwise. It's important to note just how easy it is to damage soft-tissues when manipulating any body to this degree, whether it's horse or human. You can cause long-term issues that aren't immediately obvious.
- Hip and shoulder replacement are quite different beasts than a subluxation.
- The acupuncture treatment was worrying to watch, as the vet repeatedly inserted the same needle all over the horse's body. This seems like a really risky approach and opens the door to other complications.
- The horse owner did post another video online of the after, walking the mare. Unfortunately, the video is not publicly posted at this time to share here. If it becomes public I can update this post with that as well.
What are your thoughts on the video and procedure?
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What is going on in this video? There is no explanation. It looks like they are torturing the poor animal! How can we find out who these people are and what they are doing to this poor horse?
Hey Susan, I just updated with new information provided directly from the owner of the horse. Look to the end of the post for the full text.
Apparently, this was some ‘wizard’ vet ‘genius’ who was trying to resolve a dislocated SI joint. A lot of problems with what is going on, regardless of the intent behind it. I’ll update it further with more of my thoughts later tonight if I have the chance.
“You know what they call alternative medicine that’s been proved to work? Medicine.”–Tim Minchin
It’s all fine and well if it does in fact work, but no evidence has been provided to that effect. Concerning too is the vet who performs this does not want people to publicly know who he is, despite the horse’s owner claiming he’s a genius and been doing this for decades successfully. If that were the case, then bring the evidence forward and let it speak for itself. I doubt he has any, though I’m happy to change my position if the evidence comes forward. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It worked quite well, thank you. The vet is not hiding, he just doesn’t want to deal with assholes like you that are arm chair experts.
None of us claimed to be an expert in this area, but clearly, the vet isn’t either. If he was such an expert then this practice would be widely used considering how long he’s been “perfecting” it. I’d hate to see what it looked like in the first year or two of practice.
He has treated over 20,000 horses during his career. He is not the only certified Vet/certified Chiro that has used this technique. It is becoming more wide-spread. He absolutely is an expert and is well respected in the places he practices. You have to make an appointment 2 months in advance to even get a slot to see him when he is in Utah. He only comes here 3 times a year.
What ‘evidence’ would you like? Are not the thousands of success stories enough for you?
No, all of those stories (wherever they may exist) are only anecdotal evidence.
Where is the peer-reviewed evidence, where are the studies that this guy is putting out for the vet community at large?
I find it interesting that you know who I am and I am easy to contact on FB, yet you chose to post your uneducated OPINION and not let me know so there could be a meaningful conversation BEFORE you jumped to conclusions.
There was a lot of conversation happening in the group this was originally posted to, but zero scientific evidence to back up what this vet is doing. As I stated in this article, if he’s been doing it for as long as you state, and has had such great success, why isn’t it being talked about amongst other vets and becoming a common practice?
There are significant holes in the argument.
If you don’t like the criticism of those holes, then fill them with valid scientific evidence. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is not a ‘drug’ to do a test on, or even a surgery to correct a problem. It is non-invasive and the fact that he has such a high demand and success rate is all the scientific evidence needed. Here’s the deal, the SI joint was out – confirmed by 3 vets, he did the treatment and now the SI joint is in – is that scientific enough for you? This is no different than putting any other joint back in place – a kneecap, a shoulder, an arm, a knee, an ankle. there are many ways to accomplish many of these dislocations, this particular technique has proved more successful with a horse SI joint than any other. One of the horses I have been around for years is a good example. He is a jumper TB that had to be retired because of the SI joint being out. Even after thousands of dollars spent with the best vet hospitals (http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/vth/Pages/default.aspx, being one of them) they could not get the joint to go back in and stabilize. After only ONE treatment from Dr Wolfe that was around $300, this horse is back to jumping and doing great. If this vet did not have a great reputation then why did 2 other vets that could not fix the problem recommend him?
Sounds great! So where is the actual evidence this technique worked as well as you claim? You know, before and after x-rays, before and after video of her moving, etc?
I know a vet who is willing to inject humans with penicillin when they asked him to for various infections. Doesn’t make it right, safe, or legal.
Would two other vets make a recommendation to a third if the third wasn’t above board on everything? Yeah, actually, that scenario probably plays out more often than you think. Would an Olympic Dressage rider violently abuse their horse? Yep, even that unthinkable scenario has happened too!
Great stories, but where’s the actual factual evidence?
PT. The SIJ is an incredibly stable joint which is stabilized and supported by muscle and multiple ligaments. There is also very little movement available in the SIJ itself. In humans it can become rotated either at the innominate level or the sacral level. It is not dislocated. What the vet was describing is re-aligning the joint. We do this in humans using Muscle Energy Techniques (MET) to use the bodies muscles to re-align the innominate/sacrum/lumbosacral joints. It does not require sedation. That said; this is a horse and getting them to participate in MET is probably not going to happen. Sedation and human muscle would be needed to set things right. It is highly possible that this horse did have a pelvic obliquity following a tumble. My problem is laying a horse down with sedation is a big ordeal. It’s very likely that anything helpful that was performed would be undone when the horse tries to stand back up. I don’t know this horse, or anything about it’s case, but sedation and manipulaition would be a last resort for treatment in my book.
Re-reading the update … it’s highly likely that the muscle relaxer itself could have been what fixed the muscle spasm.