What is the appropriate response when you see someone abusing a horse? Is it to capture it on video while standing passively by, hoping to make a difference in the long run? Is it stepping in and risking yourself and the chance nothing will be better for the horse at the moment?
Monty Roberts was seen attending an event that showcased the brutal beating of a young horse being broken to ride, and I do mean broken. He stood passively by while film crews record the scene.
Was Monty Roberts right in this situation not to try intervening, or should he have stepped in to show a different way?
*Warning: this video shows the brutal whipping of a young horse over a long period of time, as well as yanking on his head, being tied to a post and whipped, at some point the horse collapses on the ground and is whipped to get up, and in the end is exhausted, terrified and bleeding from wounds to the nose and mouth. Watch at your own discretion.
I personally believe that in certain situations, capturing the abuse on video can lead to a long-term outcome that is more beneficial – so long as there are laws in place and you can appeal to media outlets to gain public support. But in this instance, is it likely that this particular group is subject to being persecuted under local animal cruelty laws? Or to be swayed by public outcry?
I'm doubtful.
So when is it appropriate to step in and take the whip out of an abuser's hands?
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I watched the video where Monty Roberts watched a young horse being abused, beaten, terrorized and broken. He didn’t do a thing, didn’t even raise an eyebrow… Shame on him – I have no respect for him anymore!!!
I was *very* surprised too to see how blank his expression was.. maybe I’m just a really terrible actor when I see horrible things happening but there’s no way I could’ve held a poker face like that if he was indeed feeling emotional. 🙁
Maybe it’s how he got through it? Hard to compare reactions – we are all so different based on our pasts and personality types.
Agreed, and not a criticism on Monty – just saying that I’m not sure I have that skill.
Maybe it’s how he got through it? Hard to compare reactions – we are all so different based on our pasts and personality types.
read Maria’s explanation of this situation.
It’s funny how we judge what we see with no context to what we are seeing, it’s also funny how it never occurred to the writer to contact Monty Roberts team and just ask why he didn’t step in.
But some one did ask and here is what they said
Monty Roberts
..
Chat Conversation Start
Wednesday 3:39pm
Is there a disclaimer or explanation for this?
http://www.writingofriding.com/…/is-it-ever-right-to…/
.
Is It Ever Right to Passively Witness Abuse? — Writing of Riding
http://www.writingofriding.com
.30 minutes ago
http://youtu.be/gauzqQa3yWg Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this subject.
In 2011 Monty was invited to demonstrate his concepts at the largest breed event in Brazil for their annual show in Belo Horizonte (a city of 2.5 million people) for the largest breed association in Brazil. Monty had been getting more and more students asking for change to happen in Brazil away from the traditional harsh methods passed down generationally for centuries. This is very exciting that such a large group supported change.
When Monty arrived he was invited to see a contest during the week.
There were cameras present. Notice in the footage the team of trainers are all wearing the same type clothing.
Monty of course was appalled and sickened to see this harsh treatment but had no more chance to stop the contest than a citizen of Roman times who wanted to stop the lions in the Coliseum. What he did do was immediately introduce himself to the lead trainer in the film, Mateus, and spend the next 4 days demonstrating with him and teaching him a better way to train a horse without violence and intimidation and to put the first saddle on without drama and pain.
Mateus was not prideful and was happy to learn a better way. He now trains horses in the absence of violence. A year later, Mateus was awarded a certificate by Her Majesty The Queen of England for his efforts to change the training in Brazil away from the violence. He admits he did not know a better way before Monty showed him Join-Up® and now he does, finding it much more effective to create a willing partner in your horse.
We have heard that Mateus, after this, won National Championships.
The story was told in 2012 and is still growing wonderfully today. See the whole story in video from 2012 here: http://youtu.be/gauzqQa3yWg
Rather than people spending their energy on the internet tearing down people who want to make a change, they might be out there offering to teach these people who want to know a better way. At 78, Monty is still in the trenches helping horses, and people, everywhere. Join him and change the world for the better!
I watched the video where Monty Roberts watched a young horse being abused, beaten, terrorized and broken. He didn’t do a thing, didn’t even raise an eyebrow… Shame on him – I have no respect for him anymore!!!
This black white draft was already broke .they posted in there FB how well her ground work was and it shows the founder of the rescue riding her.the rescue who sent her there LIED,CHANGED HER NAME like four times, SO WHEN SOMEONE WOULD CALL HER SHE WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WANTED FROM HER.SAID SHE WAS AGGESSIVE. WHEN SHE WAS NOT. SO WHEN THEY PUT HER UP FOR ADOPTION NOW THEY CAN GET MORE MONEY FOR HER. THE FOUNDER OF THIS RESCUE had pending non-profit on fb When she never even applied for a 501c3.( now for some reason has change to a profit corp). But I see its On there donate website, HOME IS IN FORCLOSER,HORSE HOARDS,DOES NOT CLEAN PASTURES.DOES NOT OWN LAND THE HORSES ARE ON. LAST MO. HAD A HORSE DROP DEAD FOR NO REASON,HAS PUT DOWN HORSES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ADOPTABLE OR COST TO MUCH FOR MEDS,SHOES SO ON.. SO SHE CAN FIND A HORSE SHE CAN MAKE MONEY OFF OF. People need to open there eyes…. from montey roberts to this rescue. Check out who your dealing with….before you send your horses to be abused.I wounder what this draft horse went threw.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to Sally?
You posted on montey ‘s fb page under a black and white draft horse being trained . That’s how I found your website.
Mmm, definitely not me, and in looking I wasn’t able to find a link to Writing of Riding on Monty’s fb page. Sorry, feeling confused. 🙂
This black white draft was already broke .they posted in there FB how well her ground work was and it shows the founder of the rescue riding her.the rescue who sent her there LIED,CHANGED HER NAME like four times, SO WHEN SOMEONE WOULD CALL HER SHE WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WANTED FROM HER.SAID SHE WAS AGGESSIVE. WHEN SHE WAS NOT. SO WHEN THEY PUT HER UP FOR ADOPTION NOW THEY CAN GET MORE MONEY FOR HER. THE FOUNDER OF THIS RESCUE had pending non-profit on fb When she never even applied for a 501c3.( now for some reason has change to a profit corp). But I see its On there donate website, HOME IS IN FORCLOSER,HORSE HOARDS,DOES NOT CLEAN PASTURES.DOES NOT OWN LAND THE HORSES ARE ON. LAST MO. HAD A HORSE DROP DEAD FOR NO REASON,HAS PUT DOWN HORSES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ADOPTABLE OR COST TO MUCH FOR MEDS,SHOES SO ON.. SO SHE CAN FIND A HORSE SHE CAN MAKE MONEY OFF OF. People need to open there eyes…. from montey roberts to this rescue. Check out who your dealing with….before you send your horses to be abused.I wounder what this draft horse went threw.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to Sally?
Wow. That’s horrible and painful to watch. It’s a tough call. I’m not sure he would have been able to do anything. There was quite a crowd there. It’s easy to sit behind a computer and say, “I would have done something!”, but the fact is, that could have ended badly for him and probably done nothing to stop the abuse. What do you think these men would have done if he tried to step in? This is certainly not an isolated incident. This seems to be the regular procedure for them to “break” a horse. As difficult as it was, obtaining good video was the most useful thing he could do. Poor horse. This is how many people do it. Old school was to break the horse down until there was no fight left. That’s why they call it “broke”.
Kathy, I agree it’s a tough call and definitely worth a conversation over. Culture plays a huge role – imagine a foreigner walking into a football stadium demanding everyone stop what they are doing, they are doing it all wrong and it must be abolished.. and see how the fans respond.
But what *could* be done without turning everyone defensive and angry (or more than they already are in a situation like this) to bring about some changes?
Cheers
There are many standing around there. My concern with speaking up at the time is that people who exhibit this level of cruelty would have, in my estimation, no problem with inflicting harm on another person who would question or contradict them. I would have to walk away and try to help via legal/public channels. But the best thing is to start teaching new ways to children and let the cruel dinosaurs among us die out and fade away due to public shaming.
Monty did intervene, and created a massive change in training practices in South and Central America after this event. He attended this well known competition in Belo Horizonte where teams of cowboys compete to break their assigned horse the fastest. He went to see the truth of what is considered normal and acceptable training practices in Brazil, and captured this brutal footage in order to share with the world what has been going on for hundreds of years and so catalyze real change. He then approached the winning team and invited them to see him demonstrate his own methods which are far simpler and gentler. The cowboys were amazed by how effective these methods were and have since abandoned their traditional approaches, becoming advocates for non violent training practices and spreading awareness not just of Monty’s methods but of modern training practices throughout Brazil. The abusive, traditional methods the cowboys are seen using here are so prevalent and ingrained in their culture that they are assumed to be the only way to effectively train a horse. These cowboys were completely unaware that there was another way, and when they learned what was possible, they completely changed their practices. In fact, Monty used this footage to personally show Queen Elizabeth how desperately change in horse training is needed in Central and South America, and after viewing it she presented 8 animal advocacy awards to people working to create change and spread non violent training in Mexico, and Central and South America. He wanted to face the brutal reality of traditional horse breaking in Brazil and share this truth in order to create genuine change, which he has done. He then intervened to show a better way, and let the cowboys see beyond what they have been taught to be the only effective method of breaking a horse. Had he intervened during the competition, the cowboys would’ve had no context to understand where he was coming from, no understanding that their cruel methods were not only incredibly abusive and unnecessary but also ineffective compared to more modern methods. They had no awareness of any other way, and weren’t taught to view horses with any sensitivity. Here Monty witnessed the event to face the situation as it was, share the truth of what had been going on, and he intervened to create lasting and exponential change for non violent horse training where previously brutality against horses was the norm. Having seen and experienced so much physical and psychological abuse himself, he is able to watch calmly as he does because he has seen so much violence, and knows that the way to create change is not to fight, but to show a better way.
If you are interested in hearing Monty himself describe the changes that have been made, and see him and the Queen present these awards, see this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gauzqQa3yWg
Thank you for clarifying the situation! It’s obvious from your comments that the person who wrote this article did not follow through with the WHOLE story.
Lee, except that the article was not about the specifics of this one instance, but rather to bring up a conversation of whether it’s right to stand by as an observer under any or certain circumstances.
I think a big problem we have is making excuses why this or why that – we do it when we train horses, we do it when we see horses mistreated whether it’s very subtle (occasional yanking on the reins) or very obvious (the above video for example). Is there ever a reason to let it go on without trying to intervene directly?
That is the question and I think it’s a good conversation to have because so many of us will be exposed to varying degrees of horse abuses if we’re involved with horses long enough. Can we share thoughts, ideas, and maybe find better solutions together? 🙂
Cheers
this story was put together to incite and be rude. monty cant get the respect of those people to learn his ways if he doesn’t first show them the respect of viewing their methods. its show me yours i;ll show you mine. because he watched them,.. and it was hard for him he had a blank face, otherwise known as cop face that cops use when viewing a murder victim. are they less for keeping a straight face? they have a job to do they have to compartmentalise. monty compartmentalised, he observed he read all those trainers actions and heard their justifications and then he quietly asked for the same in return while showing his methods. they realised wow,. hey there is a different safer more enjoyable way. they adopted it. this footage was cherry picked and bastardized by erica franz and she has done that on several occasions on different topics under the guise of i am just trying to start a conversation bullshit. no. do a full journalistic reporting. monty cant help an abuser realise they are abusing until he has their attention and he got it from those cowboys by showing them the respect of watching. he did the hard front line work. and this erika franz and people like her are shitting on montie’s work because he didn’t do it well enough for her. well where the hell was she when this abuse was going on? in her lala land thats where. monty went there and worked with the people. get the whole story and realise when people work the front lines they have to see very unsavoury crap and be in the thick of it to enact change. us back seat typers aren’t doing anything constructive supportive for those horses by complaining that monty didn’t do enough. you be there, you do more than just sit and type at a computer see how well it goes for you. they weren’t going to just stop because magic man showed up. he had to earn their respect before they would listen. and yeah, it took a piece of his soul, and every piece of monty’s soul that he’s given over a lifetime has helped more horses than most of us combined. that erica franz can go stuff it.
Carol, this was genuinely posted to start a conversation. I’m sorry you didn’t take it that way and that I somehow offended you.
I think that was pretty clear in this statement:
As always, be sure to refer to the fine print.
Hi Maria, is there a video of MR stepping in at this competition? It would be interesting to see how the cowboys reacted to his methods and how successful he was in comparison.
Yes, this video shows him working with the cowboys and them slowly learning to be gentle. It is from the Brazilian coverage of the event, the Exposição Nacional do Marchador in Belo Horizonte.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2bSwatuTns
You can also see how far Jose Mateus, one of the cowboys interviewed in the above video, has progressed since this event in the below video; he works without violence, and stands as an advocate for non violent training. Queen Elizabeth II has even granted him an animal advocacy award for his efforts to integrate non violent training in South America. If you begin watching at about 1:30 you can see him working, and receiving his award from the Queen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gauzqQa3yWg
Monty
is there to try and change minds. He’s hardly going to tell a bunch of
young violent idiots to stop brutalizing that young horse. It’s broke
now. Spirit, mind, everything. This violent method has worked for
these(cough) horsemen for many centuries. Monty is there to try and
change a mindset that is deeply engrained in these people. He’s been
speaking out AGAINST this method for many years. I hope someday, people
listen. And this is nothing, compared to some of the other videos I’ve seen done by these countries. They believe in beating animals to a pulp, first. It’s worked for them, now it’s time to show them they don’t HAVE to.
Monty’s own father used the same violent method on horses. It’s a very common method, depending on where you live. I’m glad he’s showing them a different way.
I have seen much worse done here in the states. That poor pinto had more whoa than go. With a little patience and the right push she could have been better trained instead of being broke. The thing to do now is get these horses away from those that did this and give them the chance to heal and know kindness. Depending on the mind set of the horse they can be brought back. I know. I bought a 2yr old that had been broken in body and spirit. It took time but, we became a great team and had each others back.
he should have stepped in….by standing by and doing nothing you condone an action
Claire, you know me and you know how I fee about horses and I think we would all have been ready to jump in and say HAY stop that but think about it for a second, had Monty done that it would have not been welcomed. What he did had to be very difficult and am sure his heart was pounding, knowing there is a better way. Yes he had to witness it but then was able to show them a better way not by attacking them verbally. He had to go about it in a tactful non threatening way, it worked and if he can reach some in now gentling and not BREAKING and hurting these precious horses it is a start and then they can pass that along to their children, it is called breaking the chain?
Years ago my 8 year old daughter captured some ill treatment of a horse on video years ago. When she came to get me to tell me what was happening, I stepped in – I couldn’t take it. If you are an adult and you know it’s wrong – step in and say something, or call someone who will do it for you. I always ask myself what I would do if it were a child.
Tracy, I agree that this is far from the whole story. I don’t want this to be an attack on Monty, but a way to open discussion around what could possibly be done – was this the best way, the only way, the worst way, the ?? way?
Kudos to you for stepping in for your daughter, whether it brought the right solution or not I think it sets a great tone for her to know that you can say something isn’t right. I wish I’d had more equestrian role models around me willing to do the same when I was growing up. 🙂
Yeah, sure if you’re playing checkers. But some people like to play chess.
I am not saying he should have jumped up and started a fight, I just think he could have tried something, anything, buy them all a drink and pay someone to hide the horse. While he helped them look for the horse, he could talk alternate methods, dare them to try it his way, I can think of a million things…Just saying… Can’t help how I feel….
ha, I love your creative look at an alternative method! 🙂 Could it work indeed? I’d love to see it attempted. 🙂
The fact that MR stood by, watching, allowing this to be filmed so HE could step in a ‘save the day’ is sickening. It’s worse than sickening. That is one of the MOST despicable, egotistical piece of crap I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen MR 3 times and have walked out all 3 times within 10 mins. His energy, his intent, his air about him is deplorable. He smiles on the outside while filled with ego and rage on the inside. Disgusting. The man needs help.
I have a lot of thoughts about this individual situation and all of the elements that go into it – the ego on both sides yes, the pieces of paper to certify people that they are now better horsemen, the Queen’s involvement from a distance, Monty’s role, the horse, the locals, the spectators, even us commenting on the other end.
I’m still trying to sort through all of that to find where a thread of real truth starts. Is there one to be found that can help simplify all of this and lead to a more universal answer that does honor to all involved, both the humans and the horses? I would love to find that and perhaps through the conversations coming up around this we can find some truth. 🙂
The only ‘real truth’ and ‘expert’ on horsemanship is the horse. They don’t read ‘the texts’; they don’t see the ‘certificates’; they don’t follow ‘the rules’ — they see from heart to heart. They are the only experts.
The only ‘real truth’ and ‘expert’ on horsemanship is the horse. They don’t read ‘the texts’; they don’t see the ‘certificates’; they don’t follow ‘the rules’ — they see from heart to heart. They are the only experts.
Really you ought to do more research before you post these things. You come off as uneducated and incredibly narrow minded. Do some research into his Involvement in those regions and then re-write this article. He is an American, do you think they will care about some old American cowboy trying to stop them? He needed to show them. Which he did.
I’ll reiterate again, this was not an article attacking Monty Roberts, but an article asking a question to hopefully open up some conversation about what kinds of actions can/should we take when we find ourselves in a situation of watching abusive actions. That question was/is/continues to be – is it ever right to passively watch horse abuse?
I should’ve done more research into what? To write instead a promotional piece about Monty, or to answer all the questions and pretend that I know everything? I don’t need to prop myself up and say, “I know everything there is to know” but instead I think it’s better to say, “I don’t know everything, what is your opinion so we can find a better solution than what is currently being practiced on the horse.”
Cheers
Really you ought to do more research before you post these things. You come off as uneducated and incredibly narrow minded. Do some research into his Involvement in those regions and then re-write this article. He is an American, do you think they will care about some old American cowboy trying to stop them? He needed to show them. Which he did.
” is it likely that this particular group is subject to being persecuted under local animal cruelty laws?”. No, because this is not considered cruelty in this country. This is NORMAL. Bad can easily become normal, you know. Just watch any rodeo.
I saw the video, and having seen Monty work with horses at demos in England and on his farm in California. This IS NOT his way… The horses’s helpless body language and the way the horse has shut down, is mirrored in Monty as well…. You can see that when there is a close up of Monty face and pain in his eyes…. People read horses body language, read Monty’s body language, he is frozen because he is in shock….
The whole story is here but the part you want is at about 1:40 http://youtu.be/gauzqQa3yWg
Monty has done more to help these people and horses in Brazil than any other horseman I know of. He’s used his ‘celebrity’ in a very positive way.
I think the actual question you ask is fair though – and it’s tricky – when I was 17 I once witnessed horse abuse but was so traumatised as a young groom by what these ‘expert’ older people were doing I didn’t speak up. Later it was part of what resolved me to help horses and any bullying I saw in the future.
About two years ago I saw someone whipping her horse at a show and I went and shouted at her to stop – I got some public support for that – but actually I didn’t feel very good about it. On reflection maybe I should have gone and said quietly ‘come on you’re better than this’ and calmed her down. I think she whipped the horse because he frightened her and ‘she didn’t know what else to do’. Maybe if she’d have known better she’d have done better. Same for me.
I may sit behind a computer now and then but one thing I never sit idly at is any form of horse abuse, at any time, in any venue. I find it difficult to stand by in the vein of allowing a horse to be brutalized so the future public can witness what another culture does to horses. I would not go to those countries without the prior knowledge of their culture, or at least without the precondition that no violence will be associated with my clinics. I will never hesitate to stop abuse at horse shows or any other place. Who are we, as a species, to “let a few slip by”, knowing that horse will never be the same? I have 6 rescues from such atrocious circumstances, and believe me, once is one time too many. To let one go by is to proliferate the problem.